Payments On Fire

Cryptocurrencies

Episode 162 – Stablecoins, Cross-border Payments & Interoperability – Ran Goldi, First Digital Assets Group

In this episode of Payments on Fire®, George Peabody will have back on the show two people that our listeners know well. Yvette Bohanan from Glenbrook Partners’ Education Team will co-host this episode, the second episode from 2022.

Keeping the listeners updated about the digital currency systems, Yvette and Bethany May (new Senior associates) are promoting a webinar series about Central Bank Digital Currencies in February and another one in March about cross-border payments systems. Not by coincidence, today’s guest is an expert on this topic.

George will also welcome back Ran Goldi, CEO of First Digital Asset Group to talk about the huge expansion of the stable coins business, how cryptocurrencies can benefit cross-border payments with small fees and almost instantly transfer. That would interoperability between the systems involved. Let’s hear Ran’s insight about it.



George Peabody, Host, Glenbrook Partners:

Welcome to Payments on Fire®, a podcast from Glenbrook Partners about the payments industry, how it works, and trends in its evolution.

I’m George Peabody, partner at Glenbrook and host of Payments on Fire®. and Welcome back, welcome to well, this would be the second podcast of 2022 and I’d like to welcome, in particular, my partner at Glenbrook, Yvette Bohanan. Hey Yvette, glad to have you back on Payments on Fire®.

 

Yvette Bohanan:
It’s always a delight to be here with you, George. I’m looking forward to a fun year and this is a great way to kick it off.

 

George Peabody, Host, Glenbrook Partners:
It sure is. Well, before we actually get into the subject matter of today’s podcast. Yvette, Well, what do I say… is the moving spirit of our Educational Program.

 

George Peabody, Host, Glenbrook Partners:
Yvette, Russ Jones and I are on the education team at Glenbrook along with Jill Wurst here and Yvette, we’ve got a lot coming up that is really relevant to today’s topic, you want to tell us about it.

 

Yvette Bohanan:
Oh yeah, so we are, we are up to our eyeballs exploring all things digital currency systems right now.

 

Yvette Bohanan:
So this quarter and to kick off 2022 I have Bethany May, one of our new senior associates helping me with a webinar series and we just completed the first one.

 

Yvette Bohanan:
Last week, on stable coins and coming up we’re going to be going into Central Bank digital currencies in February.

 

Yvette Bohanan:
And then, in March we’re going to be talking about some of the initiatives to try to create cross border payments systems using deal T based technologies.

 

Yvette Bohanan:
And I think it’s just a really fascinating area and we’re trying to demystify it and then, of course, in March also we’re doing our insight workshop, which is basically two days or six full hours virtually delivered on this topic and, of course, by then everything’s going to change because we’ve rewritten that workshop down 18 months three times trying to keep up with, you know, the cheesy rules switching around on how everyone’s putting the technology together and how everyone is developing this and moving around, and I think it’s going to be a lot of fun to see sort of the comparison of when we did this last October versus doing it again in March so we’re just really having a great time exploring this topic so.

 

George Peabody, Host, Glenbrook Partners:
Cool. But it really speaks to the actually part of our job is about keeping material as up to date as possible and certainly in this space it’s really changing and to actually dive in more deeply into this space, in particular, and how quickly is changing I’m really delighted to welcome back to Payments on Fire® for his second appearance here, Rad Goldi, who’s the founder and CEO of First Digital Assets Firm that we spoke Goldi with you last April, so welcome back glad to have you here.

 

Ran Goldi:
Yeah thank you, glad to be here again George and Yvette, thanks for having me. Happy to be one of the first guests of this new year, and obviously wish you guys an amazing year. It sounds like you’ve been hard at work on the topics that at least, I find the most interesting.

 

George Peabody, Host, Glenbrook Partners:
Good, let’s jump into that so I’ve got two questions for you, and then I’ll ask Yvette to run this whole conversation through its paces. But the first it just give us the highlight for your firm, you know, what’s happened since we last chatted with you.

 

Ran Goldi:
Well, that’s an interesting question because we talked I believe in you were saying April last year, I think that that’s correct and in the past few years, I think you know, your probably we’ve experienced this amazing growth and maybe inflation, one might say, in a lot of different places in our life and since pretty much 40% of the money out there, the world has been printed in the last 18 to 24 months, that caused a lot of interesting ripple effects in this world, and my world included, the payments world, the crypto world, the blockchain world startups world.

 

Ran Goldi:
Right, I mean we saw companies like MoonPay, for instance, raising $555 million on I think a 3.4 billion valuation and just now, I saw the George Soros and the Cameron and, sorry the brothers, I forgot their last name, which is their thing, just invested in an NFT/Metaverse company that’s worth $5 billion, which is something that when we talked about last year, a NFT was just like “ah, okay, maybe, an idea” and I think we were thinking about starting to do payments for NFTs but it wasn’t really a thing, right. And it’s amazing how much money is out there, right now, and what I find super interesting and I’ll wrap up with this that, you know, when we started really focusing on payment in stable coins and cryptocurrency that was 2019 and everyone were telling us, you know, we should probably find another day job because it’s not going to be interesting and this was just after, obviously, the entire crypto industry crashed by like 80, 90% was, you know, startups were dying in the streets and basically today, fast forward two and a half, three years later, or something, I have payments companies on one side constantly saying we are going to this, we already have product managers that we brought just for blockchain right, the same companies that when I, you know, was talking to them three years ago, said “I don’t know, maybe you should find something else to pitch” and that’s from the payment side and the crypto companies, that’s interesting, obviously those who survive, again you know, hats off to them, amazing ride for everyone, the crypto companies now understand that payments is one of the, you know, largest If not, probably the biggest use case for cryptocurrencies wherever they are stable coins or not it doesn’t really matter, and we find ourself and I’m you know, I’m very happy to say this, and being a founder, I know, this would not last, so I’m celebrating this moment where we’re at this juncture where the hype and the spotlight of payments and crypto intersection is what we’re doing, so it’s super exciting, that being said, obviously, you see a lot of companies that are maybe a bit overvalued in our field already

 

George Peabody, Host, Glenbrook Partners:
I like the fact that you just said a bit overvalued, I think that’s big, very charitable.

 

Ran Goldi:
Yeah, and look, I don’t know I mean, I’ve you know, I’ve been to a VC, it was hard for me, because I really like building, I hope they know what they’re doing. I hope returns will come to investors as this bubble bursts. But really seriously, speaking as always, bubbles will burst, good things will come out of this and builders will continue to build, so I just hope that the public won’t be affected too much by this wave.

 

George Peabody, Host, Glenbrook Partners:
Personally, I don’t know how that can’t be, I watch sports over the weekend, I’m seeing movie stars and sports figures hawking crypto and so, you know, what could go wrong with that right?!

 

Ran Goldi:
Yeah, crazy times. Well, were you watching it live or were you in the Metaverse?

 

George Peabody, Host, Glenbrook Partners:
Actually, I don’t think anybody’s gonna find me hanging out in the Metaverse.

 

Ran Goldi:
You know, I’ll save that quote, George.

 

George Peabody, Host, Glenbrook Partners:
Go ahead, I’ll take that bet.

 

George Peabody, Host, Glenbrook Partners:
Which is a lot like a lot of crypto investments.

 

Yvette Bohanan:
So we’re going to bring that we’re going to heather this conversation pun intended, back to the real world, for a moment and not go too far deep into Metaverse but that could be perhaps one of a future on Payments on Fire®.

 

Yvette Bohanan:
I’m going to start sort of pulling us back to stable coins and we’re watching what’s going on, obviously, here at Glenbrook you know, we have to observe a couple things, we are now up to over 200 stable coin circulating out there. Some more popular than others, of course, but you know, there’s roughly two just under 200 currencies in the world, so we’ve kind of doubled our currencies, if you will, in a sense, they’re not all created equal, we know that, but what really, you know, we’ve been so fascinated about technology, we’ll get to technology  a little bit and tech steps, but let’s start out with use cases.

 

Yvette Bohanan:
How are people, real people, companies, individuals, where do you see all of this going in terms of use cases, we see sort of this art for art’s sake right, like crypto trading and crypto Lundy, and then we see sort of the promise of emerging markets and countries and making things simpler for people cross border with remittances the whole DM proposal which we’ll talk about and we see sort of a safe haven currency, people that are in countries where the data is just super volatile and they want to figure out how to get out of that conundrum that they’re in personally, where do you see this going, where do you see what’s going to happen with stable coins in particular right, how’s this going to play out in your mind?

 

Ran Goldi:
So, obviously great question, because this is what everyone keeps asking and, you mentioned one of some of the, I think really key use cases here because, payments, of course, easier faster seamless, yes payments is obviously a lot of things where you know, this better than what else it’s cross border payments it’s B2B payments VSE payments it’s pay ends and its payouts and everything but, I think, and this is essentially fundamentally my view of what’s happening in the world, and why you blockchain matters and why stable coins matter, it’s not necessarily the specific use cases, it’s about understanding that we just need to upgrade our financial infrastructure worldwide and I’ll give you an example.

 

One of the greatest use cases I see today is universal basic income disbursements that are happening, for instance in Brazil right, we might have actually touched that on our last in our last interview but the Brazilian Government has a universal basic income project, the best way to distribute funds is for Brazilian citizens who, some of them, a lot of them don’t have bank accounts, they register, they get a wallet and they just send them funds on a weekly basis. That’s amazing, that’s a great use case that would be super hard to do otherwise, and then actually make sure that maybe is being spent on specific places right, and that helps the local economy etc, I think that’s an amazing use case, but I think that what matters, the most is not to find a new use case that, then we will say ah, this is why we were waiting for this specifically, it’s about making sure, and again we were touching with technology probably later, but making sure that the world finally runs and operates on on one sort of standard right, in a way, meaning that if I’m a person in the US, and I want to send funds to my friend in the UK, I want to make sure that, when I, this it’s a P2P transfer, it’s one of the use cases, we already have this use case with Fiat money, obviously, but if I can send her money and I send $100 and there’s an automatic market maker like Uniswap like contract, that does the fx conversion and you know, 0.0001 not 3% that everyone’s charging us, although they are seriously behind the scenes, the bags are just paying 0.001. If she would get that in pounds instantly, let’s say, I don’t know, 5, 10, 15 seconds, and it will be in her digital wallet, that’s it, the value is there, it doesn’t need to get through more html checks because everything was already done through this infrastructure, then, I think that would be amazing, that would be an amazing use case and again, it’s it would only be possible through an infrastructure change and that’s the largest use case for for stable coins is to just upgrade the infrastructure of the world and again, we can go into specific examples, I can tell you that what I’ve seen in the past year and again I’m looking at payments specifically, I’m looking at payments and looking cross border looking at B2B. What I saw in the last year that’s super interesting is that now merchants are requesting to get paid in stable coins, and this is something that, so we were betting as a company that we should probably develop, first of all, the ability for businesses to accept stable coins as a means of currency, and you know, we were really much relying a lot on DM to go out and spread their currency to billions so that would you know, that would start that spark and we said “okay later on we’ll try to think about businesses”, but I think the businesses somehow over the last two years where finance has in a lot of ways involved in a lot of fintech out there now, there’s a lot of talk about you know, faster payments, etc, in every country, I think they understood that they could actually request to get paid by their pierce in stable coins, and we actually see this happening right now businesses going to their respective PSP and telling them “hey you’re processing funds for us in France, our bank account is in Singapore, we don’t want to wait, you know, the three to four days, how about you convert it to stable coin, send it to us, we know what to do with that stable coin locally”, it’s fine, because the infrastructure is as evolved so much right over the past two years, now if you’re a business, you can probably find a regulated entity in your country that will, through an API, allow you to convert a stable coin to money instantly. So that has evolved and we see this in the billions, by the way, like we see billions of dollars monthly that piece to piece are transferring to merchants, and the merchants are there’s a lot of requests coming in, for them so, that’s super interesting as well.

 

Yvette Bohanan:
So efficient cash flow, whatever you want to call it, cash flow operations, cross border treasury OPS, whatever you want to label it, this sort of efficiency time value of money. I don’t want to wait around for a big business, I need to move this cash around and keep my operations going, pay suppliers here and do whatever I’m doing there, that’s interesting.

 

Ran Goldi:
Yeah

 

George Peabody, Host, Glenbrook Partners:
Goldi, I just want to ask, is there a particular type of merchant or what are the characteristics of the merchants who are asking this? I think it’s a fairly sophisticated question.

 

Ran Goldi:
Yeah, they’re all right. So obviously, they are more tech savvy merchants than others, we haven’t seen a lot of you know, drop shipping specific or, I don’t know, stores of E-commerce who sells T shirts, who want to do this, we usually see more really tech companies that are either already in finance, right, in a way, maybe they’re an exchange, by the way of crypto and that’s obvious, but maybe they’re just doing finance work and they’re processing things and they know how to handle this, they know the accounting behind this, they feel safe already, which is what a lot of other businesses are still missing, they don’t know if “Okay, is this Okay, am I breaking the law here?” So they felt comfortable with this and I really think that in 2022 I would bet that by the end of this year, I’d be able to tell you that we’re now seeing 10s of billions going through this because it’s constantly on the rise. And one more thing I wanted to say about, like a really cool usage that’s real world usage it’s already happening, and it’s you know, you were talking about this like, lending and staking and yield creation, etc, three months ago, I was at money 2020 in Vegas, missed you guys, by the way, and I was interviewing in one of the panels, a person called Alex and he is the, he’s part of the treasury of Ramp, you probably familiar with Ramp it’s a company that helps, you know, a card expense management right, for companies that have hyper growth, they went from like, I don’t know, like two people to 300 or 400 in like two and a half, three years, yeah they’re amazing, and he says “look now I need to manage the treasury of our startup” it’s not a real startup anymore, we have like I don’t know 300 $400 million whatever according to their raises the way they phrase, speaking of which right when we talked about George so, they have that, and now he needs to manage that money. So what do you do if your treasury manager manages hundreds of billions?  you usually do you like short term bonds or you know, T bills whatever different exploration and usually, when a mark money market funds, you can put liquid right, and what they did, which was super interesting is they, partnered with Circle, so that Circle would allow them to actually create yield because Circle in the last several months, Circle is one of the largest obviously software companies in the crypto field and right and they’re behind USDC that, by the way today surpassed tether as the most stable coin over Ethereum but anyway, so they’re using Circle’s yield product and he said Okay, obviously I can put 400 you know, million dollars on circle yield products, but that yield product allows me to make, I don’t know what the numbers are and obviously this is not investment advice, but anywhere, I think, between five to 8% and for him, that’s like way better than the 20 points he’s getting on bonds right, and again who wants to be in the bond market right now, anyway, but this is another example of what people could do with this, obviously I’m way more excited than the UBO project in Brazil, then start up doing yield on their money, because I think that’s this is where 10X experience’s happen and involving countries and evolving economies, and they will drive adoption of stable coins in consumer world, but the western world has already recognized the importance and features and the positive effects of them using stable coins for cross border numbers right, and transactions.

 

Yvette Bohanan:
Right, And it doesn’t sound like it’s a real heavy lift for a merchant, at least a larger merchant or moderately large merchant to actually set this up with some type of custodial account, talk to their PSP and get their settlements directed.

 

Ran Goldi:
If you’re in the US and you’re a client of signature or silver gate literally for an API you change a stable coin to dollars instantly in your bank account, and you do whatever you want with them at zero cost, so it should be a no brainer to merchants who are within those banks, and you know, speaking of banks and stable coins, we have to mention that latest news that came out about a week or two weeks ago, I remember about USDF right, this union of several banks that said “okay we’re going to create a stable coin on this permission blockchain.”

 

Ran Goldi:
And, and this is another thing that happened in the last year, George and Yvette, about I now know of, let’s say seven to eight banks in the US, who are working on their own stable coin. Now I interpret this in several ways: one is no one believes the government will ever do a CBDC in the next thing, you know, so associations aside or whatever the government’s doing, they don’t believe that. I think that they understand the need to take this and do this on their own.

 

Ran Goldi:
The other thing I’m concerned about is, you remember how, well you don’t remember, but I remember because I’m old enough, that in the early late 1800s early 1900s there were so many banks in the US everyone issued their own notes right and it was chaos right, and whose notes aren’t US anyway, why should accept this. So I just I really hope that we’re not going into this world where, you know, “oh sorry, this is my bank, these are my bank dollars”, “Oh, you don’t accept those” yeah, I’m hoping we’re not because this is what was created in the first place to do interoperability, but

 

Yvette Bohanan:
Yeah, and let’s hold on their throat a little bit and let’s take a step back, you know, we have a lot going on since we last talked about them in Novi, right.

 

Ran Goldi:
Yeah, I feel it.

 

Yvette Bohanan:
You know, DM is in a holding pattern, I guess is the best way to say and Novi came out in launched, but with Paxos, right, a very popular stable coin, very well respected and all of that, but what I really found intriguing going back to your point about interoperability and all this is David Marcus who’s obviously no longer there he accident but, when Novi launched with Paxos, his comments really revolved around the word interoperability and the importance of interoperability. Now we’re talking about diem and Novi formerly libra calibra who’s branding completely associated with one coin right, like now now they’re switching gears, they come out with taxes and everything’s about interoperability. so, what level do you see interoperability happening, you called out silver gate and how they’re doing this kind of it and network coin level, you can look at the networks, who are kind of saying like these, or whatever saying you know, stable coins are just another form of currency, we convert currency all day long, we can help you do this too, their partnering you know, if silver gate right so with their hub kind of solution. Where do you see the importance of interoperability really playing out, is it the wallet level, is it the network is it through the entire new stack that you’re talking about that, the opportunity to rebuild the infrastructure is every piece of this interoperable at that point, or how do you think about that?

 

Ran Goldi:
Yeah so first of all, my wishful thinking and I want you know, I’m echoing what David Marcus said, probably is that the most important thing we could do during this time, where everyone’s so excited about this technology is make sure, everything is interoperable. Make and it doesn’t mean that everything needs to run on the same block chain, doesn’t mean that this needs to be permission or non permission, every country or bank and choose their own but we already know that as long as they all run on the same basic VLT, let’s call that principles, then we can have the blockchains talk to one another and actually it’s interesting that you bring this up because JP Morgan said, I think 14 days ago that 2022 might be the year of blockchain bridges and if you drill down into their article you see that this is exactly what they’re talking about, we have now, a lot of islands, some of them more successful than others, it’s time, and the industry is doing this, it’s time to connect those and start to create this common language, whether it’s through atomic swap or again there’s a thing called crypto bridge, doesn’t matter what it is, but this is happening and I think interoperability is this is really what we should strive for because, and I know it’s in the minds of a lot of people, but it’s always good to talk about this and going to what you said about DM and Novi, obviously I cannot ignore this being one of the companies that it was super involved in this project, and still very supportive of this project is that I feel that, you know, DM his name is being sacrificed on the stable coin altar, it’s like the sacrificial lamb on the table called altar because it took all of you right, I mean there was no arrow that was fired by a regulator anywhere in the world, they did not hit the right in the stomach and everyone was shooting at them well, I think the world is missing out on an amazing opportunity, I think that the fact that I’m really trying not to mix, a lot of things up here, but I think when, and this is not a political statement, but I think that when the button administration took power which, is great or not doesn’t matter, I don’t live in the States, it’s your presidents, your problem, but it’s when they took power they also came with a lot of anti big tech people who came into the FTC and other committees and you know you can see, this like there’s tons of antitrust against big tech. Now I’m not saying that big tech is perfect and those antitrust are not valid, I don’t know, I have not read all of them, what I’m saying is that the fact that the DM project had Facebook and other big tech in its association colored that entire project is something that we cannot allow to move forward and really I’m telling you being there in the from the inside DM is an amazing, wonderful project with great frameworks of html and great framework for payments and so many things that sounds the perfect blockchain and there are other blockchains who are better at other stuff, but it’s an amazing blockchain to at least start running a stable coin on in a very, very, very regulated manner, and the world is just missed that for now, I hope it changes, I hope DM would find the right launch pad to do this, but for now I looked at the world, and I feel like regulators have stolen from 1.8 billion people who are unbanked the opportunity to partake in this miracle that’s called that’s called the world economy.

 

Yvette Bohanan:
Right, yeah interesting, interesting. And so the blockchain bridges, the euro blockchain bridges maybe we’ll see DM kind of become central to that somehow, who knows.

 

Ran Goldi:
I really hope and look, this is a great choice by Novi, Paksos is on fire, speaking of Payments on Fire®, Packos’ on fire, it now has PayPal, it now has interactive brokers, it has a huge game with MasterCard it’s not running Novi, by the way, Novi Facebook should get a prize for the most quiet and unheard of launch in the world of a Facebook product when they launched Novi and I think that’s on purpose, because they knew, you know, there’s going to be nuclear missiles gunning at them, and I think that they’re still doing amazing work, they’re still trying to push that free wallets at the hands of billions, I don’t know if they’ll get there or not I really hope so. I know it’s now integrated into WhatsApp, which is, I think that’s like the most amazing thing that ever happened to money but Paksos is really worth just mentioning our second because, in now became the largest onboarding tech provider in the world, what I mean is that there are so many consumer facing companies now using Paksos technology to convert fear to stable coin and then use the paksos, or sorry, the USDP stable coin, on top of that, they’ve literally became the largest onboarding tech in the world and that’s not a bad thing that’s really an amazing, by the way, accomplishment by the way.

 

Yvette Bohanan:
Yeah, no absolutely, I would agree on that. So let’s turn our attention to the tech then, right. great segue. One of the things in you’re talking about cross border use case you’re talking about remittances the 1.8 billion people that need inclusion that need a better life that need, you know, there’s a lot of promise here. But we’re seeing sort of two camps right now, and we see a lot of even central banks, almost sort of like betting on two horses in the race or two camps right, so we have one side of this, which is what we’ve been talking about it’s distributed ledger technology deal to block chain, we have Central Bank digital currencies being tested and piloted and a few launched right. Eastern Caribbean you know, did their launch.

 

Obviously, you know, we were talking about Brazil and in the disbursement of funds they had the same problem. So that hundred islands, they need to get money to people, they don’t have ATMs everywhere, you know, this is much, much better for a lot of folks. Bahamas, you know, they launched the Bahamian sand dollar with all that good stuff.

 

But we have a lot of piloting going on, and one other thing I think that the DM association did is they at least lit a fire under the central bankers, to do something right to pay attention so that’s kind of good in a way, but this technology is the stack deal T that you talked about that it doesn’t matter so much as to what’s running on it, but the tech stack itself harmonizes systems between countries, if you will, you have the other side of this, the other camp, the other horse in the race is I say 2022,  we have these fast payment or instant payment systems out there, and both are looking at cross border payments, use cases and trying to solve for efficiency speed cost certainty transparency, all the good stuff that we want in a payment system.

 

Where do you think this is headed is there room for both, why are we betting on both, is that slowing everybody down by having sort of to compete is this, you know, Beta and VHS over again at a global scale, or you know, how do we get on this.

 

Ran Goldi:
Yeah, no great question. Look, I think we can go back to the Beta vs VHS example and find out why you know, why Sony lost and VHS just won but, and I think at the end of the day it was really about actual interoperability, by the way, back then, but it didn’t matter.

 

Yeah looking at ISO 2020 sorry. Yeah 2022.

 

Ran Goldi:
OK, so I’m currently in about four different travel rules / let’s call that interoperability around payment groups and working with companies and financial institutions who are trying to make sure that we have a common language to transfer money between countries and cross border, etc.

 

Now, what’s interesting about those groups is it’s not just you know, small startups and company it’s like you know, city banks there, and bank of New York melons there and like ages me see is there, and the reason they’re all they’re actually participating is because they understand probably that what we’re working on within those working groups is going to happen away faster than any ISO 2022 right and because, and the reason for this is because it’s already happening right now in between those different entities that were in the working group together and we just need to sort it out and what ISO 2022 I think is looking at is like “Okay, how will this look like in the future, etc. I what I think, well, I think the way this will unfold, eventually, is that it was some sort of a of an they’ll meet in the middle, it was some sort of an evolution because right now there are already a large providers like, let’s take moneygram for a second, moneygram’s CEO in 2020 came on stage at a stellar blockchain breakfast and this guy is like public enemy number one for crypto right, everyone is giving Moneygram as an example, five years ago, you know, they are killing you with the fees, it’s 8% whatever 12% and you know, this is what we’re fighting, and he’s on stage hosted by the stellar CEO I was obviously shocked, you know, my orange juice like spit out of my mouth and I was like what’s he doing here and, and then he comes up and he says “we have implemented stellar technology in our systems and by 2024, 50% of all transactions on moneygram will be on the stellar blockchain using DC stable coin, on top of that.

 

And everyone was like “wow amazing” Okay, finally, you get it it’s amazing, and so what I’m trying to say is while ISO 2022 is still, I think right now it’s like vision 8 or something is still in the works, these things are already happening and those entities already building we’re working on the standards to make sure this could be interoperable with other stuff and I think that, eventually, you know, we’ll just have to merge somehow the two out of phase is going to be this versus the other but what’s really I think what really matters is that this is already working, there’s something else that I think that’s also important to mention and I think ISO 2022 is doing great work and because everyone wants to bring together swift and SEPA and those over 20 different protocols and in different countries right and I think that…

 

Yvette Bohanan:
Plus SEPA instant credit plus all of the other Institutions have instant payments is what you’re saying they want to.

 

Ran Goldi:
Yeah, I think instant payments is something that the world has definitely woken up to in the last two years or more like you know, fednow and everything. And I think those are amazing initiatives, the only thing that I think that’s just another stepping stone, I think that would again, everyone needs to remember, If you build your own tech stack in your country and that tech stack is not interoperable with a number of countries tech stack, you know, you might brought, you might create a great thing for your consumers in your country, but now, this is a, you know, it’s a it’s a world that’s global, it’s a Metaverse, right, everyone needs to connect and basically, we just need to make sure that eventually runs on DLT specific blockchain this or the ever so we could make this all interoperable that’s my point I guess.

 

George Peabody, Host, Glenbrook Partners:
I agree, well, Yvette, Goldi, we’re gonna have to leave it there.

 

Ran Goldi:
Oh, no. So much to say.

 

George Peabody, Host, Glenbrook Partners:
Yeah, great conversation, a lot more to say, we will get you back soon and to be able to continue this conversation because, as Yvette said earlier, just keeping up with this topic in our education world is, in our  education programs as a challenge and for, I know for all of us, keeping track with what’s going on in crypto and DLT and its impact on incumbency it’s a conversation we need to carry on on a frequent basis.

 

Yvette Bohanan:
A lot of dimensions to this whole thing right, you’ve touched on many…

 

George Peabody, Host, Glenbrook Partners:
Great, well Thank you so much Goldi, really appreciate it, looking forward to seeing you soon.

 

Ran Goldi:
Thank you, always happy to be here.

Yvette Bohanan:
Thanks, Goldi. Take care.

Ran Goldi:
You too, guys.

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